From Discovery to Liberation: The Transformative Power of Ecstatic and Contact Dance for a Joyful Life with Anneli Virkhaus

Episode 4.  Anneli Virkhaus is the owner of the High Vibes Healing  in Monteagle, Tennessee.  She is a sound healer, an energy healer,  yoga teacher but she also offers ecstatic dance classes and has recently discovered Contact Dance. 

Listen to her amazing journey of discovering the importance of dance in her life for healing and joy and her mission to invite more people to dance freely, particularly in the South.

Anneli Virkhaus Contact Information
Website: High Vibes Healing
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/yogastudiohighvibeshealing
Tiktok: https://tiktok.com/@highvibeshealing
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/yogastudiohighvibeshealing/

Few websites  for Contact Dance/Contact Improvisation:
https://ciglobalcalender.net
https://www.contactimprov.com

Few websites for Ecstatic Dance information:
https://ecstaticdance.org
https://hippiecritical.org/ecstatic-dance-guide/

Contact me at happysweatlife@gmail.com for questions, suggestions, or to be put on the email list and be notified of new episodes.

Find my World Groove movement zoom class on Thursdays, under my name, at: https://theworldgroovemovement.com/virtual-search/

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Transcript

Lisa: 0:09

Welcome to the Happy Sweat Life podcast. My name is Lisa Rung and I'm so excited today to be talking to Anneli Virkhaus. Anneli is the owner of the High Vibes Healing Studio in Monteagle, Tennessee She is a sound healer, an energy healer yoga teacher but she's also leads estatic dance classes and has recently discovered contact. Dance. So we're gonna be talking about those two different dance styles and I'm so excited to be talking to Anneli today. So Anneli, can you kind of take us back to, you know, your growing up and whether you did movement and how that was in your life.

Anneli: 0:54

Yeah. Hey, welcome. Nice to be here. Thanks for inviting me. Thinking back to my childhood, I think like a lot of people, I, I did take dance. I think I was in ballet. I remember that. I don't think I really liked that very much. then so stopped taking that. Maybe there was some other types of dance, like, I don't know, jazz or something. Actually, I didn't have a lot of history of dance in my life. Come from a family of people who don't dance. So the background is repression of, I don't know. I went, we listened to a lot of music, went to a lot of concerts, but they were more classical or jazz or stuff that, you know, people aren't dancing.

Lisa: 1:40

Oh, okay. Interesting.

Anneli: 1:42

Mm-hmm.

Lisa: 1:44

So how did you get introduced to ecstatic dance?

Anneli: 1:49

I was introduced when I lived in San Francisco, so that was over probably seven years ago, and I, I had, I heard about it and then I. I was terrified.

Lisa: 2:04

You were terrified.

Anneli: 2:05

Yes, terrified because again, I come from a background of not a lot of dance. And then of course you have school dances, which feels so awkward.

Lisa: 2:13

Yes.

Anneli: 2:14

I've never, and I've never taken a lot of actual dance, so I, and I did a lot of other activities, volleyball, swimming, other activities, the dance was this freeform thing, which I think I really wanted to do, but I just never did, and it felt really scary. So when I heard of Ecstatic dance, I thought, oh my God, I guess I, I wanna go and, I mean, there's a, it was held at the Church of Eight Wheels, which is just three blocks up the road from where I lived. So, this is an,, it was a church but no longer a church. So it's huge space. They took out all the pews and ecstatic dance traditionally, well, it came from Hawaii

Lisa: 2:53

Oh, okay.

Anneli: 2:54

it evolved. It came from an island in Hawaii. I actually just met a guy at a festival who yeah, he was telling me more about the history of ecstatic dance and he's been to the original place where Ecstatic dance started from.

Lisa: 3:07

Oh my gosh.

Anneli: 3:08

Yeah. So that was cool. So I went there and in ecstatic dance, the intention is that there's no talking. And, no touching unless you would like to make eye contact with someone and it's appropriate, then you might dance together. And typically there's a live DJ set, so it starts off slow and then builds up, but gets faster, and then there's an ending and a closing, and it could be several hours long.

Lisa: 3:38

Oh wow.

Anneli: 3:39

yeah, it's like at least a whole journey. When I started going. And again, I'm like, oh God, this is so uncomfortable. I would go and I think everyone was just watching me and judging me, cuz here I am like this white girl dancing. All I do is like these weird hippie things in my arms. But then I quickly realized no one cared.

Lisa: 4:02

right?

Anneli: 4:03

Like these are just judgments I have about myself.

Lisa: 4:06

Yes.

Anneli: 4:07

so it started to, I started to feel more comfortable and I would, it was it, you know, people go to church on Sundays. I was like, this is my church.

Lisa: 4:16

Oh wow. Okay.

Anneli: 4:18

And it was in a church, so,

Lisa: 4:24

Right, right. And was the music part of it important to you or.

Anneli: 4:29

Totally. I mean, music is important to me in general, but especially with dance. Music is the guide, and I love that they have different DJs and every person brings a completely different experience, and music is motivating. I mean, It just makes you express things differently. I'd like to see someone who says, oh, I don't dance, but I guarantee you get them near someone drumming, they're gonna start moving their body

Lisa: 4:57

True, true

Anneli: 4:58

mm-hmm. and be like, okay.

Lisa: 5:01

Right. And about how many people would be at these experiences.

Anneli: 5:06

I mean, in, in this location it could be quite large, over 50 or maybe a hundred people.

Lisa: 5:12

Oh my gosh, that's a lot of energy.

Anneli: 5:14

It's a lot of energy and there are some people who are really free.

Lisa: 5:18

Mm.

Anneli: 5:19

There are some really good dancers. Again, you don't have to be a dancer, but it was really inspiring to me to see people move like this. And then I would think, I wonder if I can move like that. wonder if I could free myself enough to open my body and do that. And so it was a huge healing experience for me to just go and. And dance and I mean, it's obviously a great cardio activity, but it was really more of a emotional, soul spiritual thing for me to give myself space do that. It's incredible.

Lisa: 5:55

Oh, that's beautiful. Can you talk maybe a little bit more about that? Like where were you at in your life when you decided to, to go and,

Anneli: 6:06

Yeah, Yeah, back then I'm, it's always trying to think back. Living in San Francisco. I mean, I, I was still very much not sure of what I was really doing. I mean, I had done trainings, oh, I'm a certified music therapist. Great, now what? And then I had been discovering sound healing and, and in the world of energy healing. But it was hard in San Francisco because everybody's doing some type of healing there. So it's a giant saturated market. So I, I would say I was very unsure of myself back then. I mean, I was doing some things, but yeah, I wasn't really doing all this work that I was meant to do is kind of just doing other jobs and. so expensive to live in that city. I mean, I don't know. It's a weird place to be. You have all these potential places to meet with people in gatherings and ecstatic dance, but then everyone's so busy and it's so expensive that it's a giant contradiction.

Lisa: 7:05

Right, right.

Anneli: 7:07

So I was, I was still in a more deeper healing space and that for me is someone who recovered from being anorexic and just other things to me to be able to move, like come into my body and move and away. Not rigidly was healing. Like, I can move like this, I can express myself like this. That was powerful because back then, I mean, I've been free of that stuff for over five years, but I mean, it takes a while. It's

Lisa: 7:43

does.

Anneli: 7:43

it's really about worth. So I was healing that pretty heavily through movement.

Lisa: 7:50

Wowl what would you say you kind of got out of the ecstatic dance experience?

Anneli: 7:57

One thing I think is just joy

Lisa: 8:00

Joy. Yeah, that's a good one.

Anneli: 8:02

Fun. Fun. It's fun to dance and be with people moving and some people might just skip the entire time or who even knows whatever you wanna do and, and back then I knew about contact dance, and I saw people doing that in the contact Dance is where. You are, it's a very fluid type of dance. One, one part of your body is always touching and so it's always changing and I'd see people do it and some people, if you really, maybe you do it with someone you know, or a friend or whoever, it's, it's so cool to watch and I thought, oh my God, I don't know if I could ever do that with someone. That is just, that's the next level. I'm okay dancing by myself.

Lisa: 8:48

Right, right.

Anneli: 8:50

We'll see about that next thing. But there was an experience I had after going to dance for over a year, or who knows the time period. There was this one older guy, he is like in his sixties or something. He always just wore yoga pants and no top and he, he he was like a weird I mean, weird as like, okay,

Lisa: 9:08

Yes.

Anneli: 9:09

I knew this one day when I danced. I thought, oh my God, he's gonna come up to me and we're gonna dance.

Lisa: 9:17

Ah.

Anneli: 9:17

And he did. He came up, so he made eye contact and we didn't, we didn't touch, we didn't contact dance, but we were kind of mirroring each other, but there was eye contact and so we did these weird moves and, and it lasted, my hearts pounding God over and then we just give a little like bow or hands in front of heart, like acknowledgement. He left and I was like, oh my God.

Lisa: 9:42

So was it a good experience or.

Anneli: 9:44

a great experience, but it was just the next level of like, it's okay to interact with people.

Lisa: 9:50

Right.

Anneli: 9:50

can dance, you can do this, you can make eye contact, you can move, you can dance. again, I think that whether it wasn't really expressed, but it somehow seemed unspoken that there's something dances. Dance is wrong, or I don't, I don't know, something, know, just like a heavily constricted, not free environment. And again, I wasn't around a lot of dance. I mean, I did some contra dancing That's totally different,

Lisa: 10:21

Yeah. Very structured with that contra yes.

Anneli: 10:24

So this was a big part of my healing journey to do unstructured movements that were guided by music.

Lisa: 10:34

So for somebody who maybe is new to it, do you have any advice for them?

Anneli: 10:42

Yeah, give yourself permission to be where you are. Like, hey, if you wanna go show up, and then maybe the first thing you feel comfortable doing is kind of standing in the corner or in the back. maybe you just kind of move, barely move. You could do anything in ecstatic dance. No one cares. You could just sway from side to side. I mean, you could get down on the floor and be there and stretch and then kind of move. But if you never show up, it's never, you're not gonna, you're not gonna open.

Lisa: 11:15

Right, right. I love that. Yeah. Show up

Anneli: 11:19

Just

Lisa: 11:19

Just try it. Yes.

Anneli: 11:21

Just show up and I mean, here I am. So I had these experiences in San Francisco and then of course moving back here to Monteagle and talk about repression. I mean, we're in the deep south here

Lisa: 11:32

Mm.

Anneli: 11:32

and there's a lot of episcopals and then you have Methodist or all of this. And sometimes it is saying like, dance is evil,

Lisa: 11:38

Right.

Anneli: 11:39

or whatever connotation. And so I have only a very small group of people who are, who like to dance and who are free enough to do this. And I, I talk to my students. I say, Hey, I have this dance class, and I, I swear the most common thing is they look stricken with fear.

Lisa: 11:56

Right, right.

Anneli: 11:58

they say, oh, but what am I doing in this dance class? Are you guiding me? I'm like, no, I'm not a dance teacher. I make a playlist, starts off slow, gets faster, we end in the Shavasana lying down. And that to them is way worse. Like, they're like, what about Zumba? I'm like, this isn't Zumba. I don't to do Zumba.

Lisa: 12:17

right.

Anneli: 12:18

different. That's something else. And so I, I encounter that a lot. People will say, I can't dance. I look stupid. Or, or someone else made fun of them or, All of these things which people then held onto and it, it's hurting them because not being able to just move freely when you dance and open yourself and, oh, it's so healing. There's so much stuff happening on so many levels energetically and just emotionally, you're moving your energy and it's just so good for you this is what people need and that's why I'm still offering it, even though it's really small. And in hopes that more people will be able to come and just let go.

Lisa: 13:04

So a couple thoughts. One is, do, do I remember correctly that the lights are kinda low, so

Anneli: 13:10

yeah, the lights are off.

Lisa: 13:11

lights off?

Anneli: 13:12

Yeah. and all the places I've been to, there are no blinding lights on, ecstatic dance. Well, when I went, it was during the day or on Sundays. I went to one recently in Asheville and there were over a hundred people.

Lisa: 13:23

Oh my gosh.

Anneli: 13:24

There were a lot, but there are no lights. And here at my space if it's in the evening and it's not summer, I mean now it's kind of light lights are off, low lighting, right? Make people feel comfortable. Maybe you're like in the darkness, not, you know, not blinding pitch black dark, but, and then maybe just some like soft lighting of like you know, salt lamps or something so that people can feel comfortable to relax.

Lisa: 13:49

I think that's an important part of, part of that atmosphere. The other thing I was thinking about is just how much emotions we store in our bodies. So scary that can be when you kind of start to move your body and that those emotions might come up. But how important that is,

Anneli: 14:08

They do up

Lisa: 14:09

you saying. Mm-hmm.

Anneli: 14:12

It's important to be able to release them, which it can be scary if all of a sudden you feel sadness or whatever it is, but that's why if you're moving. You could just move in a way that, in that area, since your chest kinda open your arms up and out and maybe you go, or just, I'm a sound person. I'm all about, just let the sounds out. Don't analyze it. So in my space, of course, not a lot of people are making sounds. If you wanted to, you could. Or if you were dancing alone, maybe you could also add that sounding component to your dancing

Lisa: 14:47

Oh, I like that. Yeah, that's great. I was thinking too, it's a lot about trust, like learning to, to trust your body and

Anneli: 14:56

Oh yeah.

Lisa: 14:59

Yeah, learning to trust you can handle your emotions and. Learning how to connect with your body and, and feel good about it, rather than you not feeling good about it.

Anneli: 15:08

Yeah. Not feeling good or judging it or. Yeah, it is a trust journey. I mean, it's a reflection of our life journey, but I, I love dance. It's so, it's so helpful to me, and I've recently been able to go to a few music festivals where there's live music and dance. Oh, there's no greater feeling for me than being together with live music, dancing with people. It's joyous. It's powerful. It's palpable and everyone, I mean, yeah, it's just one of the best feelings ever and I miss it like living here and not many people coming, and that's why I have to keep going out apparently to fill myself up or get this at a, at a larger level because I need it and I didn't know how much I need it. It's becoming more and more apparent that it's a very important part of my life.

Lisa: 16:07

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I mean, I think too, like, like you were saying about joy and in order to live like more fully, I. Like, there's almost, you almost need to be moving and dancing.

Anneli: 16:22

Mm-hmm.

Lisa: 16:22

it's, cuz it's moving so much energy and if you are locked it down, you know, it's really hard to kind of experience and enjoy life fully if you're in a locked body.

Anneli: 16:34

It's not flowing.

Lisa: 16:35

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Anneli: 16:38

that's why doing any movement walking or whatever it is, starts to move the energy. And that's great because stagnant energy creates illness in the body, which is all emotions. And it, it's like, for me, it's like, look, I could just hold this in and, and if I let it fester, next thing you know, you got a tumor or whatever. Hey, guess what? I'm not into that.

Lisa: 17:01

Right, right.

Anneli: 17:02

Why not deal with it now and why not process it via dance or sound where you don't need to talk about it? I don't want to talk about it. I want to just let it out in some weird

Lisa: 17:15

Right, right, right.

Anneli: 17:17

It's much better that way.

Lisa: 17:19

I mean, it kind of reminds me of the philosophy with like e f t tapping where you're not really focused so much on it. It's just moving through it like you're not analyzing, like you were saying, you're not analyzing it, just allowing it to happen and then

Anneli: 17:34

Yep.

Lisa: 17:35

moving

Anneli: 17:35

Bring it up so you it. Because the number one thing, I've been working with people for a long time in some type of therapeutic healing context. People don't wanna feel their feelings.

Lisa: 17:45

Mm-hmm.

Anneli: 17:46

They think they're gonna die, or I don't even know. And that's again, that that is the cause of issues, stagnation dis-ease into disease. And it could all be prevented and it can also be reversed. It's never too late.

Lisa: 18:02

That's a great thing to remember.

Anneli: 18:04

Yep.

Lisa: 18:05

Yeah, absolutely. Was there like a particular moment you remember when you were doing the ecstatic dance or are doing the ecstatic dance that, you know, where you felt a shift or.

Anneli: 18:20

I mean, I don't know. I probably felt numerous shifts at different times of like, oh, I'm so free, or, never moved like that before and this other time a great experience at, at San Francisco. There is this, there is this gay man and he was a great dancer he really just picked me up. Like he, with my permission, he picked me up and I was standing basically on his feet and he was just moving me in this beautiful way.

Lisa: 18:50

Wow.

Anneli: 18:50

That was a cool beautiful experience. Again and I do have this desire I have a friend who does come to Ecstatic Dance when she can. She's a dancer. She, she was, was a dance teacher and so I'm interested in potentially taking, learning different types of dance, Modern Dance where you're kind of rolling on the floor and just moving or taking more contact. Dance or even swing or just because I'm like, wow. What would it feel like to move like that and to know it and to be confident? And then, and then of course if you're dancing with a person, that's just a whole different thing. You're connected to them and that's a very deep experience as well.

Lisa: 19:36

Mm-hmm. Yeah, I was thinking about when you were talking about dancing with the, the first person there's an element of being seen, like when you're looking each into other's eyes,

Anneli: 19:48

Oh God.

Lisa: 19:49

so many of us try to hide. You know, I guess part of the ecstatic dance as well, is like we're allowing ourselves to be seen moving in our bodies.

Anneli: 19:59

Yes. We are and why it can be so scary. we went to this ecstatic dance in Asheville and my niece was with us. She's 15 and she just sat there, which is fine. She can do whatever she wants. I'm not gonna force someone to do anything.

Lisa: 20:15

Right

Anneli: 20:16

watching and you know, but she's, she thought it was weird. Which it can, it can be weird and you know, I bet I would've thought the same thing when I was 15.

Lisa: 20:25

Yeah. Yeah.

Anneli: 20:27

That's weird, but later on you might find yourself wanting to move in different ways or be in different types of community, and that's okay. And she did talk about some people really good at dancing and she enjoyed watching that. Or there was one woman there who was doing kind of the Sufi whirling dervish

Lisa: 20:45

Oh my goodness. Wow.

Anneli: 20:46

you know, which, you know, spinning, spinning, spinning for like 10 minutes at a time and not falling over. So, yeah. Again, it's just you're moving along this journey. I would never force anyone to do anything ever, because that's not the way it works. But if you're curious, then I would invite you to just, you have to give yourself permission to show up.

Lisa: 21:10

Right. Right. And I think That permission is like inherent in the ecstatic dance experience be wherever you're at. So like you said, if you just wanna move your finger you fingers,

Anneli: 21:23

No, there's no judgment. No one's, no one's judging you. No one's looking at you. No one's talking to you

squadcaster-5jh3_3_06-16-2023_121449: 21:30

Everyone's in their own experience. Now, if you would like to move into an experience together, could be a choice that's made.

Lisa: 21:36

Mm mm-hmm. Yeah, I think too, like that's, those experience sort of start to unlock the brain a little bit too, like about what's possible for, for yourself. I like that about it.

Anneli: 21:52

Yeah.

Lisa: 21:53

so you were talking a little bit about contact dance. Do you wanna kind of describe what that is and what your experience has been with that?

Anneli: 22:02

Yeah, so contact dance is again, where the goal is one part or one point of your body is always touching, and so

Lisa: 22:12

Another person.

Anneli: 22:13

another person's body.

Lisa: 22:15

two people.

Anneli: 22:16

Two people. No. Look, I, I, I was just at this music festival, which was incredibly transformative. By itself. Well, lots of music, lots of dance. this is where I actually, my intention going there was I want to do more contact dance because I'd seen it done before. I hadn't really ever done it. It makes me uncomfortable and this is the next edge. So, but with the deeper it gets, you know, you might, your arms might be touching your, the hands you're moving around, it's really very fluid and you actually find that it's pretty more natural than you might think.

Lisa: 22:51

Okay.

Anneli: 22:52

And it's just an experiment kind of, and it is, you are connecting to a person because you're touching, you do not have to constantly make eye contact, cuz that could be very intense

Lisa: 23:02

Mm-hmm.

Anneli: 23:03

so that the, you can, you can look wherever you look, but it, at this festival I did dance with some people and at one point I did contact dance with six people, like six of us moving. And it's this weird, so what's the word? I don't know, one word was like organic or I just think of these like, you know, like sacred geometry shapes and these arms

Lisa: 23:28

Ooh, I like that.

Anneli: 23:29

dunno. It's cool. And so then I did, I did dance with one person who is a kind of a serious contact dancer. Like as in they do it a lot. So they're pretty good at it. I dance with this person I've never moved like that in my life,

Lisa: 23:45

Oh, wow.

Anneli: 23:46

ever.

Lisa: 23:47

What were some of the things you were doing that you

Anneli: 23:50

I, I mean, it was just, I mean, opening to moving my body like that, never moved like that, especially not with a per another person. And I guess that was a really healing experience to me again, just to move like that and you're connecting to this person and moving in these ways. Like there was a lot of stuff happening on, on these other levels, but it, it was just really fun. It's really fun to think, wow, what's gonna happen? Who knows? It's, it's, again, it's just this weird in the moment expression.

Lisa: 24:24

I, I was watching some on YouTube and it seemed like some of it was just like people back to back and supported, you know, as their.

Anneli: 24:32

can be back to back front to front. some people who, I mean, if, if you do it a lot, you kind of get more comfortable like sometimes. Somehow the person, one person's on the ground and you're like rolling over the person and like, I don't even know. I didn't get to that level. I mean, I'm open to it. It's yeah, it was, and you're meeting another person energetically, but also physically, but you know, like in an appropriate way. Connecting, which is something that people desire. And we've missed, and we went through this strange time where you're not connecting at all. it felt really important to me to stay connected to myself and to other people who I, I feel good about.

Lisa: 25:20

Mm.

Anneli: 25:20

And also imagine if most people don't have enough, enough touch or contact in their life. so what if you did this and it was in a way that you had contact?

Lisa: 25:31

Right, right. Yeah. I wanna try it.

Anneli: 25:35

we can do it

Lisa: 25:36

That would be awesome. I'd love that.

Anneli: 25:37

I then, I, I asked my ecstatic dance group. I said, I'm interested in doing contact dance. Do you wanna try it during our class? And they all said Yes. So if you wanna come, can do it. And we know it got plenty of music. And then it'd be great. And even Oliver is interested in it. I mean, Oliver was coming to a estatic dance with me, not all the time.

Lisa: 26:00

Mm-hmm.

Anneli: 26:01

It may have been more important to me, but he can dance and he can do it.

Lisa: 26:05

Yeah, absolutely.

Anneli: 26:06

And there was a, you know, at this ecstatic dance there, it was in San Francisco at least, it may have been half and half men and women.

Lisa: 26:15

Mm. Wow. Okay.

Anneli: 26:17

Yeah. Well now I gotta tell you here, there's no men. Oliver comes. I mean, it's enough to barely get these people in door. Forget about some of these men, you know? And that's fine. I'm here offering a space. Everyone's welcome in the right timing. If they never appear, that's fine. The vibrations are going out there and they feel it at some levelprobably never consciously, and that's okay.

Lisa: 26:43

Right. As say, maybe they're dancing to music in their own house.

Anneli: 26:47

I did experience, I went to a person's like party, I don't know, like last year or whenever, just like a house party.

Lisa: 26:55

Uhhuh.

Anneli: 26:56

And there were people dancing.

Lisa: 26:57

Oh.

Anneli: 26:58

Now they did have alcohol cause let's be real. We know people. Hey, and Suwanee, they, well, okay, there's drinking, I think. I feel like maybe that loosened up people enough. But I was just so happy I was seeing people in this area dancing. I'm like, man, I should tell him about ecstatic dance. But I mean, we don't, I wouldn't, I mean, hey, you could do whatever you needed to do before you come to a dance class. What you do before you enter, that's

Lisa: 27:29

Right,

Anneli: 27:29

on the premises of this building, there's no alcohol. And as someone who doesn't drink, I'd prefer, Prefer not to be near that.

Lisa: 27:36

right, right.

Anneli: 27:38

It, it, it's really, if you can reach those places without a drug, even better.

Lisa: 27:44

Absolutely.

Anneli: 27:45

like, yeah, sure, you took a bunch of Molly or whatever and you're free. That's great. But what about without it?

Lisa: 27:52

Right?

Anneli: 27:53

What about when you're feeling really low and doubtful? Can you still open yourself? I don't know.

Lisa: 27:59

Mm-hmm.

Anneli: 28:00

that's when it's really, you know, like needed. But really, whatever it takes, just, just get there. Just show up and start moving.

Lisa: 28:09

I love it. I was thinking too, like what you were saying before about being in the deep south and sort of the, the religious focus and the element of a person's sexuality and how much people associate being free in their body with maybe being, I don't know, too sexual or something

Anneli: 29:05

Yes, That is, I could see that because this contact dance I just did, I think it could be perceived as incredibly intimate At times. mean, I was going pretty deep. Other, it, but I mean, imagine if you have these beliefs that oh, this man or this woman is touching my woman. And even if it was just like, It is an appropriate way. It's just a free movement. If you have these heavily conditioned beliefs, It's gonna not go over well. And yes, they, there are, it does seem to be like if you're gyrating your hips right, that's sexual. That's like the whole thing with El Elvis or all of that. When you started moving like that, that was revolutionary. And people were like, that's a sin I mean, to open. That lower region where that's, that's your most powerful energy centers. You know, it's so important to move that area and I can definitely see that people would frown upon moving like that, but you know why they're frowning upon it? Cuz they desperately want to do that.

Lisa: 30:13

right

Anneli: 30:14

They can't admit it. But if they could somehow open to that or if they had a drink and then did it, they would feel it and experience it. And so I could see, I do see that, and I could see that at times you could be like, well, you were crossing a line. It's like I was just expressing myself in a moment. Know. It needed. Are you gonna judge me for that one weird movement I did, or that this person was holding me and I dunno,

Lisa: 30:44

Yeah, it's almost like pleasure is sort of a taboo,

Anneli: 30:48

Oh yes know?

Lisa: 30:49

And you are connected to your body and moving it, you know, you will experience hopefully,

Anneli: 30:56

that's dangerous. That's why religion came around because, As soon as you realize that you can come within yourself and activate this Kundalini energy or just this energy flowing through you and that you're connected to this God source at all times, you're the most powerful being in the world. Mm. not great for capitalism and

Lisa: 31:15

Right

Anneli: 31:16

You not conforming.

Lisa: 31:19

right.

Anneli: 31:20

So of course it was heavily frowned upon. And of course it's a lot related to women. I mean men experience it, but women throughout history, Have been told you can't ex, you know, like don't express yourself or it's pleasure and it's so heavily, there's so much stuff there.

Lisa: 31:38

Mm

Anneli: 31:39

It's so deep and, and, and being here in the south, I feel it. And that's why I'm doing this work. That's why I am in this location. You think I wanna be in this location all the time? No, I

Lisa: 31:53

Mm-hmm.

Anneli: 31:53

I really don't. It's very beautiful naturally, but there's a lot that makes me think, God, how long can I live here?

Lisa: 31:59

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Anneli: 32:01

But I just keep doing the things I do. And again, if I can go out and find my people and connect with them and then come back and feel filled up, then it makes me feel like I can stay here. But it can be sad to think, oh, no one's dancing or. I feel all of this repression and, and no one's wanting to look up or open up and Well, you know, and I feel everything cuz I, I've, I'm an empathic person and so it's a lot going on, but again, I just bring it back to dance. If I'm having a hard time, I go I dance and I sound Express that because I can't hold onto it. It would just, it would, it's just too much to bear.

Lisa: 32:43

I think that's a amazing way to deal with it.

Anneli: 32:46

It's a healthy way.

Lisa: 32:47

Yeah. That's a healthy way to deal with it.

Anneli: 32:49

Much better than hurting yourself.

Lisa: 32:51

Yes, definitely And at least growing up for me, like that wasn't really offered as a an option, you know, to deal with your emotions.

Anneli: 33:03

Let's, let's real. There no options presented to us in the school system to deal with your emotions

Lisa: 33:11

Yes. Yeah.

Anneli: 33:12

you were lucky to be in some type of family or maybe some person figure in your life showed you like it's, it's so backwards. not even funny. But that's what I'm here for is a change and a shift. Dance is a part of it. Music is definitely one of the biggest parts of it, and so the more that people come together or even if you're alone doing it, has a huge impact. More than you could ever know.

Lisa: 33:37

I just sort of had this image of like, sound and dance, like vibrating in your cells, you know?

Anneli: 33:43

Yeah, they are. It is. It is shifting. is. And that like, you know, the loud, the bigger the speakers. I mean, it is vibrating yourselves. if you got some deep bass whoa, that is going into every cell and it starts moving,

Lisa: 34:01

Right.

Anneli: 34:02

you shaking. You're the tweaker right by the speaker. That's a Keller Williams song. Yeah. There's a, but what's funny is that every time I go to a festival or anywhere or even a concert and there, and there's room to dance, there's always at least one person who's up there dancing really freely and wildly. Even in Sewanee have those Angel Park concerts, there's this guy, never see him any other time. shows up, he's moving. He doesn't give a if anyone else is there and he's just free. And I'm like, hell yeah. so glad that guy is right now.

Lisa: 34:42

Yeah. Yeah, it's possible. It's possible.

Anneli: 34:45

possible, I'm always one of those people too. Let's say no one's dancing. get up and dance and yes, I feel uncomfortable.

Lisa: 34:53

Mm-hmm.

Anneli: 34:54

But I'm like, I'm, I'm doing this one. I want to, two, maybe other people will feel like they have permission to do this too. Usually one of the first, I don't know if it's because I got a December 1st birthday or just my nature. I, I'm, I, I am one of those people. I just take action. I'm like, I'll do it. I'll be vulnerable. I'll, I'll put myself out there. Why not? What you have to lose Much?

Lisa: 35:20

Yeah. Yeah.

Anneli: 35:21

feel strong emotions, well, I'll deal with them later or deal with them in the dance. form it into a ball and release it out there.

Lisa: 35:29

Oh, I'm just thinking of how much judgment we bring into, being visible like that, you know, dancing in public, even in our own homes sometimes, it feels like we'll be judged

Anneli: 35:39

We're the only ones judging ourself.

Lisa: 35:42

yes. Yeah.

Anneli: 35:43

You really are. I've learned.

Lisa: 35:45

Yeah.

Anneli: 35:46

never, I mean, and if someone did have a weird, random thought about you, that's still a reflection on them. It's a mirror, But people are always hardest on themselves and judging themselves, and so that's that inner work that's important. But

Lisa: 35:58

Mm-hmm.

Anneli: 35:59

again, like if you find it really hard, then maybe turn on one song in your house in a place where you feel safe or no one's going to interrupt you. Close your eyes or do whatever you need to do and see if you can move. maybe that's like a first step, just one song and then you're like, that's it. I can't handle anymore. Cause maybe it brought up a lot of stuff.

Lisa: 36:23

Yeah, that's great advice.

Anneli: 36:24

maybe just keep going from there. if you pick a really good song that you really like and you know it has a good rhythm or just feels really good, it's pretty natural. And you might say, oh, I'm just gonna dance to one. But then next thing you know, maybe you dance to like three or four songs or it continues.

Lisa: 36:44

I think there's a beautiful message in a lot of these dance forms that if you have a body, you can dance

Anneli: 36:51

Exactly.

Lisa: 36:52

you know?

Anneli: 36:52

what they say about yoga too. goes for any movement It's beautiful. I love dancing and I've been allowing myself to realize that I love that and that it's important to me and that I can honor that. And if I, oh, well, maybe I wanna go, maybe it is worth driving to Chattanooga to be part of something or take something if that's what I need.

Lisa: 37:16

I really like that, that sort of decision like this, this is important to me.

Anneli: 37:20

This is, yeah. This is very important. just filmed myself dancing the other day. I haven't uploaded it yet,

Lisa: 37:27

Oh.

Anneli: 37:28

been doing this Facebook live, being vulnerable, sharing whatever's up, and I, so I filmed myself dancing, so I'm gonna put that out there and definitely makes me feel uncomfortable. Definitely look at myself dancing and I see the judgements I can, I can hear the critic, but I'm like, it doesn't matter. And it's not real like, Well, you know what? I do move like a white girl because I am Well, whatever, you know? I'm not a trained dancer, I'm just moving and maybe someone watching that, who knows. I don't know what's gonna happen. Have no, no control of over no expectations. Like maybe someone gets something or not. Mm. Don't know.

Lisa: 38:11

it's so interesting how we really have to struggle that we ha. To claim that we have a right to dance regardless of how it looks.

Anneli: 38:19

Yeah.

Lisa: 38:20

we just are so used to seeing, you know, ballerinas and the perfect pointed toe and

Anneli: 38:26

Oh yeah. You're supposed to always look so perfect and so poised and and never be emotional breaking down. Again, that's just all conditioning, which are breaking.

Lisa: 38:37

yes,

Anneli: 38:37

Collective where it's shattering right before eyes in every place. And dance can be a way to continue to let it just crumble so that new things can come.

Lisa: 38:49

Mm-hmm.

Anneli: 38:49

feel comfortable in their bodies, comfortable being themselves, expressing themselves, like physically, emotionally, mentally, spiritually all of those ways. It's just gonna take a while. it's moving faster and faster.

Lisa: 39:05

Yes.

Anneli: 39:06

But it's a process and In here, super slow. Like I say, slow as molasses little too slow for me, but, you know, I'm, a rat. I'm speeding along.

Lisa: 39:19

It's like a volcano where all the lavas happening underneath and suddenly,

Anneli: 39:23

Yes, lots happening underneath and peak explosion soon.

Lisa: 39:28

Oh my gosh. I wanted to ask you, in terms of both contact, dance and ecstatic dance, like how welcoming is the community to people who maybe have different gender identities or racial backgrounds or, you know, just are maybe viewed as different in society?

Anneli: 39:47

I would say these are some of the most accepting people I've ever met. They're just like, welcome. Welcome. They'll hug you. They'll, they'll smile at you. know, they're just, don't care. They wanna dance. They're letting you be you. I mean, everyone's welcome and I mean, depending on where you live, of course, like. they make announcements in the beginning. You kind of set the stage, the rules and, and some places that are more progressive, like Asheville, I mean, they might say something about like, oh, the bathrooms are non-binary, or whatever, you know? But like even this group of people here who, you know, we are in this area, super welcoming. Someone new comes in, they're just excited. They're like, yay, we're so glad you're here.

Lisa: 40:34

That's great.

Anneli: 40:35

know, encouraging. They're encouraging, they're happy. They're uplifting you. That's, that's the only thing, any ecstatic dance I've ever been to anywhere. Same thing. a great tribe of people.

Lisa: 40:48

It sounds like it. I was gonna ask you just a little bit more about the contact dance. Are there sort of any guidelines or rules they set for the contact dance?

Anneli: 41:00

You know, I'm not sure about that. I haven't taken an official contact dance class and in San Francisco they did sometimes offer before ecstatic dance, like a contact dance session. And I didn't do it cuz I wasn't comfortable yet. So I'm not sure about that. I would assume different people would have a different setup. What, I mean the, it might be like the first class, you just start, start being comfortable moving in front of another person. I don't really know, but I imagine. Maybe there's something you express to each other. I don't, I don't know. I mean, didn't express anything to these people. It just somehow happened. You know, up and you have your arm and your forearm touches, and then you just start moving.

Lisa: 41:44

very spontaneous. That's wonderful.

Anneli: 41:46

spontaneous and clear when it's over and then it's fine and there's no, and then it's like they've moved on and you're like, thank you. So yeah, I'm, there's more to learn about that. been looking online of is there contact dance near me? And it seems like there might be some places in Chattanooga where it

Lisa: 42:03

Okay.

Anneli: 42:04

maybe occurs sometimes. I don't know. It's a little hard to figure out. So I'm, I'm looking into that. And again, one friend who. Comes to dance. I mean, real. I mean, she's really good at dance, which can be, that could be intimidating, but really I use it as, can I move my body like that? So maybe I'll just work with her of like, I'd like to do this more. I didn't realize how much, especially this like not just contact, not just ecstatic dance, but contact dance. I need this apparently who. Oh no. Geez, this deep. Oh, and it's, it's very emotion. It's very emotional for me. I can't say that for everyone, but I'm just in a state of my life right now where I am pretty heavily activated at some, at some deeper levels, and so deep emotions are just releasing, and that's why dance is one of the best ways to process it, because I don't have to think about it.

Lisa: 42:58

I think that aspect of dropping from your head into your body is very important.

Anneli: 43:05

Yeah, rather don't leave it in the mind. It'll snap, Bring it into the core of body, and then that it will move.

Lisa: 43:14

Oh, well thank you so much for talking about those two dance styles. I know you have a lot more that you do and maybe we'll explore that at another interview. But any, any last words that you wanna share?

Anneli: 43:30

I don't know. I thank you for thinking of me and letting me come on here and share. And the parting words are, Just dance.

Lisa: 43:38

Just dance a call to action. Just dance

Anneli: 43:43

just dance. Just do it. ok. It's ok. It's safe to dance. really is.

Lisa: 43:51

You're in control.

Anneli: 43:52

You

Lisa: 43:52

in control. Yeah.

Anneli: 43:53

have to lose control. You really don't. I mean, you're not possessed or anything.

Lisa: 43:58

Right,

Anneli: 43:58

It's just music.

Lisa: 44:00

right.

Anneli: 44:01

It's like, and then you're moving. It's really, so natural.

Lisa: 44:07

Yes.

Anneli: 44:07

It's one of the most natural things, which is why when people finally allow themselves to do it, it feels so good and natural because you did it. You've done it your entire life. At some point, it's like you're returning home like, oh, I forgot about this. Oh yeah. I

Lisa: 44:22

right. Yeah. I mean, you see so many videos of little babies that are just moving to the music

Anneli: 44:29

They're just wiggling.

Lisa: 44:31

Yes.

Anneli: 44:31

We need to remember to watch our children and the babies, cuz they're the ones who remember and are still connected. they're the ones who can process and handle life easily because they're moving and moving the energy and we

Lisa: 44:45

Crying when they need to.

Anneli: 44:46

Exactly. Expressing their emotions freely instead of suppressing them and stagnating them, and then suddenly having cancer in five places of their body. If you just give yourself permission to move it, it would be so much better for every person. But you know who isn't benefiting doctors, big pharma, of that. But you already, I know my opinion on that, and that's a strong negative

Lisa: 45:09

Yes.

Anneli: 45:09

End on that note, but so they, you know, can do a lot with dance and expression. It's incredibly healing, but really just finding joy and fun and laughter is so powerful.

Lisa: 45:20

Yes. Yes, I agree

Anneli: 45:23

Yep.

Lisa: 45:23

So I would love if you could share, just if somebody wants to get in touch with you your contact details. And I'll put them in the notes too, but,

Anneli: 45:31

So I have a website, highvibeshealing.com. can see more about me and then I'm on Facebook and Instagram. I think that's Yoga Studio High Vibes Healing, and I am available and always interested to talk to people about anything. I'm a very open honest person. So

Lisa: 45:51

I will attest to that.

Anneli: 45:52

yes, Some people would say sometimes, can you be a little less? Nope, didn't come that way.

Lisa: 46:01

Yes, I said that in the, I meant that in the most loving way.

Anneli: 46:04

Yeah, I understand. May not be for everyone and that's okay because know each to their own

Lisa: 46:09

Oh my gosh. Well, thank you very much, Anneli Thank

Anneli: 46:13

you and I'm so happy that you're doing this. thank you.

Lisa: 46:16

Okay, I will Okay. Bye.